Film Theory: Is Suicide Squad's Joker ACTUALLY Batman's Boy Wonder?

פורסם בתאריך 31 מאי 2017
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With Wonder Woman coming out in theaters this week, I felt it was time to take a look back at some of DC's other movies from the past few years. Specifically, Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad. Back before Suicide Squad and Batman v. Superman hit theaters, there was a theory kicking around that Jared Leto's Joker was secretly Batman's sidekick, Robin. But the Director of Suicide Squad, David Ayer, seemed to dismiss this saying that Jason Todd, former Robin #2 was NOT the Joker. However, the proof we cover today shows that Suicide Squad's Joker can still be Robin...just not the Robin that everyone thought.
If you think you've heard this Batman v Superman/Suicide Squad theory before, you ain't seen NOTHING yet!
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תגובות: 27 510

  • Best evidence for Joker being a former Robin is that he is still alive, even though Batman is a cold blooded killer in DCEU.

    • This didn’t age well

    • @lil pebble No some just puts their enemies to sleep:

    • Not all batman are killers

    • This comment aged so well lol

    • @Sxlent never talk about fight club

  • Being picked by batman to be Robin is literally a death sentence

    • @notvoid also the other robins have been “tortured” as in the whole time they were around the joker counts as torture

    • Well not rlly ALL Robins died. Just Jason but he was also brought back to life

    • @Bath city tv nah it's only Jason

    • @notvoid well yes but basically every single one ended up with some form of trauma so technically they died inside in some way or another-

    • nightwing 😐

  • Snyder cut proved this even more "Why send a boy wonder to do a man's job?"

    • @Wai Min Aung actually*

    • Autually joker said “why you sent your boy wonder to do a man's job?”

    • I thought it seemed pretty clear that he meant the DCEU robin suffered the same fate as jason todd,,,

    • @Luis Sierra but he dirrected the movie why would he lie

  • This theory is even more interesting after watching Zack Snyder’s Justice League. In the final Knightmare scene, Joker talks about Robin and he says “Why would you send the Boy Wonder to do a man’s job?” This could be Batman sending Robin to attack the first Joker but then Robin gets turned into the Joker.

    • @Justin Walsworth but Jared did only play the joker. Did he say that Jared's joker is not the Robin?

    • is that a callback to batamn beyond where tim drake becomes the joker??

    • @Jakson pretty sure robins dead tho

    • @Tauhid i think he knows

    • well if robin was indeed joker, batman would recognise him and the fact that he'd talk to him the way he talked to joker in the nightmare timeline simply disproves that that can't be joker

  • A really good point to this is something I noticed while watching suicide squad. This version of joker doesn’t seem to be quite as “abusive” towards Harley as previous incarnations. Yes, he leaves her after the car crash, but he does eventually get her. And even when she dropped in the ace chemicals, he hesitated, but still dove in after her. He always came back. Which is very different that other versions where joker would 100% leave Harley for dead. If she programmed Tim Drake like this, she totally could have made him different in terms of treatment towards her. There may have been a joker before this one, and that may have led Harley to get clean, get back into psychiatry, and find a new joker.

    • That’s a good point

  • In Teen Titans go, Robin is the one to dress up as Jared’s joker when they are all doing a bit about the different movie franchise Jokers of the last decade… Coincidence?

    • No, not a coincidence. Because they decided to make a joke about Jared Leto's Joker being Robin considering the theory was well known.

    • Yes

    • I think not

    • That's exactly what I was thinking

  • Loved this video, but i think the bullet holes on the robin suit compared to the joker's scars is the most telling reason. That's not a mistake, nor a coincidence.

  • MatPat: *3* Robins Damien Wayne: Imma End this Man Whole career

  • If every single Robin ended up dying or turning into a joker now I can never watch teen Titans go the same way again

    • @Keon Scinist continuity and canonicity are 2 different things, there can be many timelines in the same canon

    • There all alive

    • Jason got revived Nightwing is in titans he is alive Tim Drake is alive dymain Wayne is alive

    • never happen in main timeline so not canon

    • I mean correct me if I’m wrong, but in an episode where Beast Boy and Cyborg waited into the future and saw that Robin turned into Nightwing among other chaos

  • in Snyder Cut Justice League, in the xtended scene when Bruce Wayne got the dream, meeting with Joker, the dialogue was actually supporting this theory.

  • Me who just watched the Snyder Cut Justice league: Yes seems like u were right....i could almost say its 100% confirmed... i dont want to give out spoilers but .....i think what Jared says in the snyder cut is just proof of this theory being true

    • @Justin Walsworth did u even watch the video?

    • @Justin Walsworth Sorry. It's my head cannon now.

    • @Maria Gabriela Rodado Román Yeah, this video just got recommended to me and I remembered that during the watch party he answered this. I originally thought so too because of what he said but then he typed that he wasn’t in the chat bar

    • @Justin Walsworth Well ;v; ty for the info

    • Zack Snyder deconfirmed the theory on March 18th during the ZSJL Watchparty when asked “Is Jared Leto’s Joker Robin?” And he said no.

  • I'm still going with this theory after watching the Snyder Cut.

    • @Sokiaze no it doesn’t it something a 12 year old would make

    • @Dominick Ballistic It really isn't bad, it makes it far more interesting.

    • @Filip Marszałek the theory is bad and isn’t true stop it

    • ​@Kyle McCabe maybe he killed his identity (:

    • @Justin Walsworth Its also been confirmed that Leto joker killed the robin in the dceu

  • Technically, Joker AND Jason Todd both portrayed a character named Red Hood.

  • I love this theory it was the first film/game/food theory I ever watched and it got me invested. That was 4 years ago and I still go back and rewatch it sometimes. One of my favorite theorys ever

  • Spoiler Warning This also really makes sense when the joker teams up with Batman in Snyder cut

    • @Keegan Arnst it’s just some coincidences

    • @Justin Walsworth There's also the idea of Death of the Author where the artists intention is not as important as the viewers' interpretation of the work. So, unless it is specifically stated in the film itself, it is up to interpretation.

    • @Justin Walsworth Could be a cover up to hide the truth, just saying

    • @Justin Walsworth does he have to tell the truth every time maybe they don't want to spoil something that big

    • @Justin Walsworth so he says but just look at the evidence

  • If you think about it, batman is literally an abusive guardian. He takes teens into his care and makes them to fight dangerous criminals. They might want to, but any good parent/guardian would try to at least make them wait untill they are adults to go out fighting crime.

    • He does try to stop them, and always trains them first, plus he has tried to no end to keep them safe in all other aspects, if he said no, they'd still do it, just a lot less safe. For example, Damian was told he wasn't to be Robin, and he did it anyway, almost got killed. Jason was told he couldn't go for the Joker on his own, he did anyways, got killed. It's to be expected that they'd do it anyways, if he just says yes then it will be on his terms with equipment and training

  • This is hands down my favorite DC theory.

  • I just watch the justice league Snyder cut movie and I think maybe your theory might be right

    • @Justin Walsworth probably just didn’t want to go through with it.

    • Zack Snyder deconfirmed the theory during the ZSJL Watchparty where he was asked “Is Jared Leto’s Joker Robin” And he said No.

  • I always thought that matpat had the same energy as teen titans go version of Robin

  • honestly i have always thought that the Joker was around the same age as Batman, but as is in Batman Beyond there can always be more than 1 Joker so a Joker that was a younger Robin that replaces the old Joker is absolutely possible imo

  • With the Snyder cut recently releasing , I can believe in this theory a lot more now

  • This theory might just salvage my opinion on Leto's Joker.

    • I think I like Leto's Joker because he seems to like knives. I like knives too.

    • That's why the director said naw I whant all the L's I can gather

    • Honestly I always liked Leto’s Joker. Sure he’s very different but I think he works really well

    • Why? Leto isn't a robin.

    • Jared Leto as a girl 💀😂

  • It’s been 3 years, and it seems like we might find out if we get another synder film after ZSJL.

  • There's no reason to think that the real name of the government operative who introduces himself to Lois Lane as "Jimmy Olsen, photographer" is actually Jimmy Olsen. It's far more likely that he's an agent using a cover identity based on a real photographer.

  • The Joker was initially depicted as being much older than Batman

  • Usually I find these theories amusing, but this one actually seems like it could be totally plausible.

  • Fans: how many robins have turned into joker?! Batman: yes

    • At least 7 lmao

    • lmao

    • Yeah that’s at the job interview

    • @Joshua Shelton Jason todd became red hood after gettimg brutally killed and resurrected

    • The oldest Jokers is Batman gone back in time, that's why he is never surprised during beatings and is always laughing

  • I had a request for a theory, I'm wondering if you, glorious matpat could make a theory on the movie: (Batman Vs Robin) just a thought, keep being amazing

  • "I'll be happy to discuss with you, why would you send the boy wonder to do a man's job" -Joker (Zack Snyder's Justice League)

  • This just works even better when you see the nightmare scene from the snyder cut were almost sounds more bitter then tounting when he talks about Robin

  • “Holy interplanetary yardstick” may be the most random yet amazing thing robin ever said

  • MatPat: "As we know there are 3 Robins." Damien Wayne: "Hold my smoke bomb."

    • @Thomas Schorah are u a god ur commrnt is 2 yr ago lmao 💀💀💀

    • @Thomas Schorah damian still existed in the universe back then.

    • @Thomas Schorah 2 years ago.

    • @Mask Dude 7, theres Duke Thomas

    • Duke, Stephanie and Carrie: 🧍‍♂️🧍‍♀️🧍‍♀️

  • This is a good Theory I think if DC were to make a robin joker Jason would make the most sense (I know they said that is false but if they were to make a robin joker I would vote for Jason)

  • I love the DCEU so far, the dark and grim feel of it. But dang, they made horrible mistakes making them.

  • Now that Leto is back for some shots for ZSJL, can/should we revisit this theory?

  • I love this theory a lot one thing that doesnt work is harleys timeline, because if you are using time drake getting programed into joker, harley was there as harley quinnthen would later apear in the timeline as harleen quinzel, i know you already said it wasnt perfect but if you could make that make sense i would think rhis is absolute canon

  • I love how matpat used the best evidence at the end and uses the worst at the beginning🤣

    • Thats how he gets you to keep watching

    • TheBoundFenrip

    • Hunter Hippo ikr

    • Yeah, that's standard reveal philosophy, as seen in every mystery show ever. If you start with your strong evidence the last things people here is you making a bunch of weak points. Even if you started out with the murderer CONFESSING, the audience will be kinda bored and/or sceptical by the time you finish all the little bits about ToD and fingerprints. If you start with the weak stuff and work your way in, you build in strength and conviction as you go, until you're hammering it home like a home dunk. It's a much more entertaining experience for the audience.

  • Honestly I love Jason with all my being and I don't know why

  • I had a big feeling this was the case because I watched A LOT of the animated films/tv shows.

  • I love this video because when I clicked on it for the first time I only saw part of the title which was "Film Theory: Is Suicide Squad's Joker ACTUALLY Batman's Boy-" and my brain automatically filled the gap with "friend. His boyfriend". Now I'd watched the Lego Batman a lot so I didn't think to question it at all, which is still so funny to me

  • We need comic gurus making these movies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My God imagine how much better these movies would be.

  • *This Theory is better than the actual movie*

    • Not the movie, but it's better than the Jared Leto joker.

    • Theatrical cut of suicide squad and bvs.....yes Ayer cut and ultimate edition.........not even close

    • Which movie suicide squad or Batman v superman

    • @Milan Nikolić Yes but not neccesarily a Tim Drake "joker"-he looks younger than ben affleck here tbf

  • I love suicide squad but this makes the movie way more interesting

  • You know your pursuing the career that i always wish i could 😂

  • This hits different when you see Tim Drake in the Titans live-action show.

  • I’m sure this would’ve been revealed in the Batfleck movie that was supposed to feature Deathstroke as a protagonist. It’s sad that Warner Bros rushed Zack Snyder’s vision rather than allowing him to bring it to fruition.

  • This makes Jared's Joker make sense imo

    • Kiyan Tan -In My Opinion

    • WTH is imo?

    • I always took Leto's crackpot acting as The Joker as a part of the mental damage he received from his Electroshock Therapy; ya know, more than a few wires we're fried than what Harley intended.

    • Theres also canonical multiple jokers now

    • @Riftzynotcool Your supposed to be the greatest detective....jk

  • I’ve been using vrv since January of this year (2021) and I love it I use it to watch my favorite anime’s and the one I can’t watch on oth streaming services I rate it a 10/10

  • This was proved wrong in the Snyder cut but totally could still happen in the canon DCEU

  • I would re-watch this for hours to see that lead in again lol well done sir

  • Slightly correction: Redhood isn't a villain, the proper term would be Anti-Hero

  • this gives me a whole new perspective of Robin in "teen titans go"

    • @Fiddlesticks robin has jason todd ash jar on his home lol Cool easter egg but todd wasn't robin yet

    • He wrote this 2 years ago and everyone started commenting 1 year aho

    • There's also an episode in Teen Titans Go where they have to sneak in joker's lair to get Starfire's money, when they try to impersonate joker Robin goes for Jared Leto (Suicide squad's joker)

    • @ChaosHenry SevenStickmin yep, a "Joke" from Someone Soon to become "Joker", SEE ALREADY GOT RES FLAGS HERE 😂🤣🤣🤣🤣

  • This is my personal headcanon. Also, I think he's Robin/Blake from the Dark Knight trilogy because I like to fit that in as well. Also also, Batman Vs Superman and Suicide Squad are awesome IMO.

  • This question always, ALWAYS runs through my mind and I still don't know why.... Why has Lex Luthor not got any hair? Literally, Am I the only person asking this question?! I mean did he do some experiment that went wrong or what happened there??? I NEED ANSWERS!!!!!!

  • 1:00 The Waynes death scene was to introduce the "Martha" one, if we would not have had this scene we would not have understood that the last word of Thomas was "Martha ....." pronounced by Superman in exactly the same way as Thomas

  • Additional evidence now that it's the future; Harley Quinn is confirmed as the 'master mind' of most of their schemes.

  • If I was a director and had plans for a feature installment, and the fans are cracking down on theories and are correct, of course he would deny it. It would make people love Jared letos joker. Like jar jar Sith, they should have followed through with that -- would have redeemed the character.

  • Matpat: There are 3 Robins Damian Wayne: Am i a joke to you?

  • This is actually a pretty good theory matpat

  • I like how we completely ignore my favorite Robin, Damien Wayne

  • This vid made me realize how much work he actually put into these like his edits r so unnecessary but it probably took for ever

  • The only problem I have with this theory is that Harley didnt become Harley until after the Joker does his stuff to her, so why/how would Harley have a reason to do anything to Tim Drake.

  • The Robin themed intro is so wholesome

  • The start of the episode had me laughing

  • Robin: did a Catchphrase MatPat did a Catchphrase: It's A Theory

  • I feel so bad for Robin now... *And my brain hurts.*

    • Me 24/7 tbh

    • @Nighteye Sir, Mirio has his power back

    • Spiritcat208 666 likes

    • Look for Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker. It helps a bit to understand lol

    • welcome to the world of dc my dude

  • Ya know what, this story twist is kinda cool. The dark version of the "wonder boy" other than red hood.

  • What if, instead of being a second Joker, Tim IS the Joker in this universe?

  • So, Joker is based off "The man who laughs?" That would explain the BATman who laughs.

  • Also, if nothing else, I hope the writers take inspiration from you because pretty much everything they've made so far has been just awful

  • This would definitely make letos joker alot more interesting lol

    • Read my comment about one ☝️ evidence being wrong

    • I totally agree with you

    • silver smoke nk

    • @William Soto mark hamill like Leto's joker.

    • Not really because leto is 48 years old, older than Ben Affleck.

  • But now that the Snydercut has been released, what about that Knightmare Scene where joker clearly says "Why send a boy wonder to do a man's job"?

  • fun fact: in the episode of teen titans go, where the titans trying to get to joker’s place. they trued their best of becoming multiple jokers from other universe and robin was the scuicide squad

  • That could be a good movie. The transformation from robin to joker.

  • Who is here after watching Zack Snyder's Justice League?

  • “3 Robins” Damian Wayne: cries in Russian

    • *Arabic

    • @Tall_and_ Angry i think that was also damian wayne, just a different version. Unsure though.

    • @Waffle The Mak you don’t cry, we cry

    • He’s my favorite robin I am taking no criticism

    • batman's daughter:

  • "Shows Picture of A batman van and says get it?" Me looking at it what "its just a batman van" my younger sister "HAHAHA Its a batvan"

  • I wish the people at WB spent a fraction of time that you guys have spent on research. The DCEU wouldn't be on the verge of being shut down

  • We need a real live action universe.

  • I've come from the future, to tell you that there is an actual Snyder Cut of Justice league that came out during the great Coronavirus of 2020 (Boy are you in for a treat!). This completed cut is the good ending of the terrible Whedon cut of Justice League. It confirms that Joker is Robin. Good luck with it all!

    • Zack Snyder deconfirmed the theory during the ZSJL Watchparty where he was asked “Is Jared Leto’s Joker Robin” And he said No.